1 Topic by TeeSquare

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Topic: Reorganising Partitions on a Dell laptop with WinXP

(1.) I am new here. I have a Dell Inspiron 1520 laptop which came with three primary partitions and an extended partition containing a logical drive, together occupying the entire disc space.

(2.) My aim is to create space for installing a Linux OS, and separate working area for my personal files, but preserving the original WinXP (as far as possible).

(3.) I have tried to describe the details of my problem and questions as numbered points for easy reference. I am not generally familiar with the working of computers, as I have mainly used an old assembled desktop so far as just a word processor (Word97) running with Win98.

(4.) The laptop configuration is the basic default for this model -- Inspiron 1520. The main specifications are:
<>Memory: 1 GB RAM
<>Hard drive: 80 GB (SATA)
<>Processor: Intel (R) Core 2 Duo (also described as: Dual CPU T2310 @ 1.46 GHz)
<>Operating system: Windows XP Home, version 5.1.2600, Service Pack 2.0
<>Optical drive; CD writer and DVD reader - combo drive
<>Word processor software: MS Works 8.5 (not MS Office ! )
[If the above details are inadequate, I can furnish whatever else is needed by referring to the properties files]

(5.) The partitions other than the C: drive are hidden, and I could detect them only by viewing 'Disk Management'. I also read the XP help files and succeeded in installing 'Recovery Console' as a startup option, from where the 'diskpart' command provided details of all the existing partitions as follows:
Header information: "76 317 MB -- Disk 0 -- at Id 0 -- on Bus 0 -- on atapi [MBR]"
(Drive) -- (Partn. No.) -- (Type) -- (Size) -- <Free Space>
? -- Partition1 -- [FAT] -- 78 MB -- <70 MB>
C: -- Partition2 -- [NTFS] -- 70 598 MB -- <65 356 MB>
(-) -- Unpartitioned space -- [-] -- 8 MB --
F: -- Partition4 <media direct> -- [FAT32] -- 2557 MB -- <1822 MB>
E: -- Partition3 -- [FAT32] -- 3075 MB -- <679 MB>
The first drive (unlettered) is described elsewhere as 'EISA configuration'.

(6.) I was able to use a GParted live CD (created from an image file "gparted-live-0.3.6-7.iso") which displayed essentially the same information, summarised below:
/dev/sda -- 74.53 GB
/dev/sda1 -- fat16/primary -- 78.41 MB (8.03M used + 70.38M free)
/dev/sda2 -- ntfs/primary/Boot -- 68.94 GB (6.59 used + 62.35 free)
not allocated -- 7.84 MB
/dev/sda3 -- Extended/lba -- 2.50 GB
/dev/sda5 -- fat32/logical -- 2.50 GB (734.6M used + 1.78G free)
/dev/sda4 -- fat32/primary -- 3.00 GB (2.34G used + 679.6M free)

(7.) I succeeded in using Gparted to shrink the C: drive to 14.65 GB, thus creating unallocated space of 54.30GB. But I am hesitant to take any further steps because any possible corruption of the E: or F: drives (hidden by the Dell installation) might result in malfunctioning of WinXP. Use of the 'recovery' discs will probably attempt to restore the factory settings. The Dell system does not allow any access to those partitions. I suppose they are required in case of system crash.
I cannot make a screen shot, but the partition boxes from left to right are presently as follows:

sda1 (0.08G) / sda2 (14,65G) / unallocated (54.3G) / [(sda3)=sda5] (2.5G) / sda4(3.0G)

(8.) I now wish to employ the free 54.3 GB space in the most effective way, using the GParted (or any other) tool, and my basic question here in this forum is:

(9.) Is it possible by any means (like copying and deleting) to convert the primary sda4 (E:) into a logical drive in the extended partition (to be suitably enlarged), so that a free primary is available for the Linux OS?

(10.) I am open to any advice, but what I would like to have ultimately is somewhat as follows, unless some alternative arrangement is advisable:
sda1 -- no change (~0.08G)
sda2 -- no further change (14.65G)
unallocated -- (~5G)
sda3 -- extended (~??G) [containing four logical drives initially]
original sda5 -- logical (2.5G)
original sda4 -- logical (3.0G), previously primary
sda? (new) -- logical (~20G) for personal files
linux swap -- logical? (~2G)
sda? (new) -- primary (~20G) for Linux OS and other open source programmes

(11.) If something like the above is feasible, I would be grateful for some advice (in layman's language) on how to go about achieving it, and what are the possible pitfalls. The GParted help files do not seem to cover this kind of situation. Is it advisable to have the primary linux partition before the unallocated space following sda2?

(12.) If a change like this (converting sda4 from primary to logical) is not practical, is it all right if I have the Linux OS also on the extended partition as a logical drive. Hope this is not a silly question!

(13.) In the worst case I may have to lose either or both the hidden E: and F: drives, and hope that WinXP will function properly without them. I wish to steadily get familiar with Linux and start using it exclusively, but I was told that having a Windows alternative is advisable. I was warned against opting for Vista. The XP option was not available here (I am located in Madras, India), so the laptop was purchased for me in the US in December 2007, but I haven't found the time to start using it so far. I am still managing with my old desktop

(14.) I want to try and do the re-partitioning exercise by myself, however slowly and cautiously, rather than ask for help from local 'experts' whose competence I cannot gauge, and whose time or patience may be limited (or their capacity to "explain" things to a novice). No meaningful help is available from Dell here because the default limited mail-in service is valid only in the US.

(15.) I have a rather slow/erratic dial-up connection, so my internet access is irregular, and I will not be able to interact quickly in the forum if there is further information or feedback needed from me. I hope anyone who responds to this will excuse my slow responses.

Thanks for your patience in reading through all this!
=TeeSquare=

2 Reply by class413

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Re: Reorganising Partitions on a Dell laptop with WinXP

Linux can be located in logical partitions. It doesn't need a primary partition.
Furthermore, the actual partitioning scheme supports up to 4 primary partitions. In the case we need more, we can use an extended partition and put there more logical partitions.

In the case of your laptop, I think the simple solution would be to shrink the primary xp partition (as you already did), then to grow the extend partition /dev/sda3 to take all the unallocated space, leave /dev/sda5 and /dev/sda4 unchanged and put all Linux partitions in the unallocated space into the /dev/sda3 extended partition. For a typical Linux installation you need at least 2 partitions: a root partition and a swap partition. You could also add a 3rd partition for  /home. All of them can be logical partitions.

It is better to leave the 3 original non-xp partitions as they are. They are probably related to the system recovery, BIOS related tools and check software.

(topic moved to the live media section)

*** It is highly recommended to backup any important files before doing resize/move operations. ***

3 Reply by cmdr

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Re: Reorganising Partitions on a Dell laptop with WinXP

Welcome TeeSquare to the forum (from newb to newb)!
First of all, you did a very good job in describing the structure of your harddisk and pointing out, what you want to achieve ! Its clear, understandable and well structured.

I recently had to configure a similar dual boot system (W2k secondary to a Vista system) on a Dell laptop (not mine) and therefore know the programs, Dell uses on its machines. I am very familiar with MS-DOS/Windows for over 20 years and had several very disappointing attempts over that long time to try Linux and its derivates. Seemed, that I always had the "wrong" machine. That - fortunately - changed now. My expertise in Linux is therefore not that ample as it is in Windows. And ... Computers are my passion, not my profession.

(I refer to your numbered questions by using parentheses, as you did.)

Before we consider details, I want to point out some important items :

1. You did nothing wrong by shrinking the XP-partition, but be careful for the next steps.

2. "Geparted" meets absolutely the requirements for your purpose (8.).

3. Linux does not need a primary partition for working (12.).

4. If you dont want to violate warranty conditions, keep the Dell installations untouched as far as this is possible (Boot Loader is discussed later)... and, for the first two keeping their physical location, the third regaining it, risk of damage is minimized (see below).

5. You have to consider first, what needs to be saved from the Windows partition ( risk of losses of one or all partitions is more than hypothetical ). Worst case is that you have to format the whole harddisk and to install all stuff from CDROMs (which you probably have, dont you ?) to recover Dell's "shipping state".


Here are my comments to your harddisk configuration :

(refers to physical order on your harddisk before your shrinking action)

1. sda1, primary "EISA configuration" : Dell Diagnostic program, which starts off the master boot record by using F12 key (if I'm not wrong).
You should also have it on a bootable "Diagnostic CDROM", which does the same job without harddisk installation.

2. sda2, primary, boot,(mounted C:) : Main OS, here Win XP Home SP2 ( sda1 would have been assigned driveletter D:, if visible. It's omitted therefore)

3. sda3, extended partition with
sda5, logical, <media direct>,(mounted F:): I don't know, what its for ! The Dell laptop I reconfigured originally had only 3 partitions. But you can look at the logical drive and see what it contains, resp. what program uses it, or perhaps it is mentioned in a manual.

4. sda4, primary,(logical E:) : Recovery partition,  : fastest return to "shipping state" , some sort of a packed partition image, I assume.

Btw, the built-in CD-Writer/DVD -Player has driveletter G:, doesn't it ?


Here is the "roadmap" to your new dualboot Dell:
(Backups must not be stored on the Dell !)

A. Precautions

1. Be sure to see all files (and its extensions) in Windows Explorer (system files, hidden files ). Do not copy or try to backup/restore "recycler" and "System Volume Information"

2. Backup "boot.ini", "ntldr" and "ntdetect.com" (C:\)
"boot.ini" should look like this :
_____________________________________________________________
[boot loader]
timeout=10
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP" /fastdetect
_____________________________________________________________

3. Backup all(!) important personal files from WinXP (drive C: and F: !)to CD-R(W)s, a big, fast USB stick or an external harddisk.

4. Download "HxD.exe" (1,6MB) and save MasterBootRecord(MBR) and all VolumeBootRecords as files on an external drive (Windows).

5. "Geparted" has some problems moving partitions on one harddisk, so we take a safe method and temporarily delete the extended partition and recreate it immediately by "adding" the big unallocated area, you freed from XP, i.e. starting with that new extended partition just behind the shrinked XP partition (and its 5 GB unallocated "reserve" or why this unused big space here ? (11.) If you see it as a reserve for the extended partition, put it into it , to the end) First new logical drive must then be the reborn F:-drive. Therefore we have to keep its former content by backup, along with its exact partition data ( but do not reuse its old starting point!).

6. Download "HxD.exe" (1,6MB) and save MasterBootRecord(MBR) and all VolumeBootRecords as files on an external drive (Windows).


B.Let "Geparted" do its work

Annotations:
- Ref.(9.)/(10.) : You must not touch sda4 or it looses its functionality for the Dell Recovery. Just leave it as it is and where it is. You do not need a primary partition for LINUX OSes to function properly (btw. the bootloader has it, see below). You are free to create whatever logical drive you need in that extended partition (except for the first, see above), and you already know, that a swap partition is usefull.

1. Delete expanded partition sda3 (in common with logical drive sda5)
= sda1 (0.08G) / sda2 (14,65G) / unallocated (56.8G) / sda4(3.0G)

2. Create new expanded partition
= sda1 (0.08G) / sda2 (14,65G) / unallocated (5G ???)/[sda3 expanded (51.8G)] / sda4(3.0G)

3. Create first logical partition and format it (FAT 32), reformat it in XP
before restoring content !
= sda1 (0.08G) / sda2 (14,65G) / unallocated (5G ???)/[sda3| /sda5 (2.5G)|  (49.3G) unused] / sda4(3.0G)

4. Create further logical partition(s)
= sda1 (0.08G) / sda2 (14,65G) / unallocated (5G ???)/[sda3| /sda5 (2.5G)/sda6(xx G)|  (49.3G-xx G) unused] / sda4(3.0G)

5. Format all new logical partitions with appropriate file systems for Linux


C.BootManager / BootLoader (keep it in mind before installing any LINUX OS !)

Annotations:

Linux OSes can be booted in more than one way. We have to differ between Bootmanagers, which need their own Master Boot Record (p.e. LiLo, classical GRUB, SysLinux), need a special Machine-BIOS, which knows them (isolinux) or those, which use their Windows counterparts (Grub4DOS). In order not to change too much on your Dell, my advice is to use Grub4DOS. We use it with the "renaming" trick, avoiding, that two boring menus arise one after the other. Grub4DOS is able to start Win XP by "ntldr" and vice-versa. The active part of Grub4DOS is a file "grldr" (in conjunction with "menu.lst", where the menu is defined). Just rename "ntldr" to "xpldr" (for use in "menu.lst"),"grldr" to "ntldr" (do not rename "ntdetect.com" !) and be sure,  that only one item exists under "[operating systems]" in "boot.ini", then you only see one (Grub4DOS)-menu at the start.If you download Grub4DOS do not choose the source (src) download, because it is much bigger than the pure compiled files (15.). When installing Linux do N O T allow any bootmanager to overwrite the Master Boot Record. If it happens anyway, you have a backup of it (you remember "HxD" ?) to correct this.
"menu.lst" has a special syntax that resembles the other bootmanagers (syslinux, grub), but is not quite the same. I can help, if this is an obstacle for you. A very important thing is, that Linux uses only LineFeed (0x0A) in its textfiles, whereas Windows uses CarriageReturn/LineFeed(0x0D 0x0A), which is often not tolerated by Linux. "HxD" can easily remove the unwanted sign, if you configure under Windows.


D. Install whatever LINUX distribution you want.


I hope,that my suggestions are understandable and correct

cmdr

4 Reply by hashky

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Re: Reorganising Partitions on a Dell laptop with WinXP

I have a Dell Inspiron 1501 that I just partitioned and Installed a triple boot - Windows XP, Ubuntu, and PCLinuxOS.  I worked for 2 days trying to get the wireless card to work under Ubuntu, gave up and added an install PCLinuxOS.  I haven't tried to get the wireless card working under PCLinuxOS, but it did start working somewhat under Ubuntu. 

One other difference in our computers, other than the model, is that I have a 160 GB hard drive.

I wrote a how to for our computer club that I should get posted to the internet in a few days.  Enough background. . .
=========
Before you start, buy a good backup program like Acronis True Image 11 and make a backup of the whole hard drive.  Put it on an external drive or on DVDs.
=========

(Drive) -- (Partn. No.) -- (Type) -- (Size) -- <Free Space>
"? -- Partition1 -- [FAT] -- 78 MB -- <70 MB>"
"/dev/sda1 -- fat16/primary -- 78.41 MB (8.03M used + 70.38M free)"
This contains the Master Boot Record - leave it alone
-----------------
"C: -- Partition2 -- [NTFS] -- 70 598 MB -- <65 356 MB>"
"/dev/sda2 -- ntfs/primary/Boot -- 68.94 GB (6.59 used + 62.35 free)"
Windows XP
-----------------
"(-) -- Unpartitioned space -- [-] -- 8 MB --"
"not allocated -- 7.84 MB"
This contains the BIOS for the hard drive - leave it alone
-----------------
"F: -- Partition4 <media direct> -- [FAT32] -- 2557 MB -- <1822 MB>"
"/dev/sda3 -- Extended/lba -- 2.50 GB"
"/dev/sda5 -- fat32/logical -- 2.50 GB (734.6M used + 1.78G free)"
Dell stuff needed for diagnostics and restore
-----------------
"E: -- Partition3 -- [FAT32] -- 3075 MB -- <679 MB>"
"/dev/sda4 -- fat32/primary -- 3.00 GB (2.34G used + 679.6M free)"
More Dell stuff needed for diagnostics and restore.
-----------------
Comment:  A 6.6 GB Windows XP is small.  My Windows XP Pro install is 16.2 GB.  I would allow more space - about 20 GB - for Windows XP, but this is a personal choice.  I actually allowed 32 GB.

1.  Add the unallocated space (56.8 GB or what ever) to /dev/sda3.  BTW, 25 GB is a large Linux install.

2. DO NOT MOVE /dev/sda5.  Do not move any partitions that contain data.  The MBR points to a physical location on the drive.  If you move it, it will not boot.  There may be some easy fix, but I don't know what it is.

3. Create a partition in front of the /dev/sda3.  Make it 1.5 or 2 GB and format it for linux-swap.

4. Create at 2 partitions in front of the linux-swap partition.  Ten (10) GB in the one next to the ntfs partion.  Format this partition as ext3, mount as root "/".  Format the partition next to the linux-swap ext3, mount as "/home".  (Tip:  It is best if these 2 partitions are 2 different sizes so you can tell them apart.)

Option:  Just make this one big partition formatted as ext3, mount as root "/".

5.  Install PCLinuxOS.

a.  Under install options, pick use the exist partitions.  You don't want PCLinuxOS messing with your partitions.

b.  PCLinuxOS will ask you where you want to put the boot loader, pick the default.

6.  Reboot and cross your fingers.

Ron Spruell

5 Reply by TeeSquare

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Re: Reorganising Partitions on a Dell laptop with WinXP

Hello cmdr,
Thank you very much for your elaborate response to my problem. You have taken a lot of effort to explain matters in considerable detail. Unfortunately you have grossly over-estimated my computing capabilities! You are speaking with twenty years expertise in Windows, hence an expert to someone like me who is really a newbie. It took a few weeks of reading up and asking around for me to even describe my problem. I'll have to study your post carefully and reply to it later, because much of it beyond my understanding and present experience.

It is possible that I may just settle for the simpler advice given by the moderator class413, and work in the extended partition without disturbing the other stuff. But I'll first wait to see if there are any other responses. I also have to go out of town soon, and should be away for over a week, so it may be quite some time before I can report success or further difficulties, as I want to go about it very cautiously!

I came across a page in this GParted forum by Gauravcha dated 14 Aug 2006 which quotes from a Dell website as follows:

''''The Dell-specific Ctrl+F11 process is supposed to completely automate the restoration process, returning the hard disk to the state it was in when Dell shipped the computer. However, overwriting the MBR by using a boot manager, using the commands "fixmbr" or "fdisk /mbr", installing from a Windows installation CD, and assorted other tasks a user might do will inadvertantly break Ctrl+F11, rendering the system unable to boot the DSR partition. Furthermore, changing the partitioning by adding, deleting, or resizing partitions will cause DSRcheck to fail, so even if Ctrl+F11 works, the restore process will abort without attempting to restore the Ghost image.'''

That sounds quite scary to me! Perhaps I should never try to reinstall using the recovery discs provided by Dell, and even the E: and F: partitions I have now are effectively useless or unusable because partition sizes have changed!

I'll try to post again soon, but please pardon delays. I have a Ubuntu disc, and after I manage to install that I will have a lot of questions for posting in a Linux forum.

Thanks very much again for the pains you have taken. Even if it is wasted on me, I hope other readers of this forum will benefit.
=TeeSquare=

6 Reply by TeeSquare

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Re: Reorganising Partitions on a Dell laptop with WinXP

Hello hashky,
Thanks for your inputs. Some of the remarks in my reply to cmdr would apply to you as well! Most matters relating to computers are beyond my comprehension, but this process of partitioning and installing Linux is something I better do for myself with proper understanding, as I don't have access to reliable help should things go wrong.

I've noted your advice for buying a backup programme (Acronis True Image). I'll have to depend on friends, because downloading software programmes with my dial-up connection is slow and uncertain. Can the GParted disc be used for copying a partition to a USB pen drive of adequate capacity? I'm not sure what backup means for a drive, as I've done it only with some document files to floppy or CD.

I'm also rather confused about image files, data files, iso images and bootable CDs. I failed to create the GParted CD myself on the Roxio in the Dell laptop, and someone else did it from an iso image on a disc which came with a computer magazine. I'll try reading up on these things, but any brief tips are welcome.

I had already shrunk the C: drive to about 15GB. It contains XP about 6.6GB, and the rest should be sufficient for adding MSWord97, with which I am already familiar, plus maybe MSExcel97 and any other Windows related items which might still be useful. However in future I hope to use mainly OpenOffice (or StarOffice), which I suppose can go along with the Linux OS. I've only read about these so far, but have no familiarity with them. I'm quite pleased with what I saw of OpenOffice from a live Knoppix CD.

I have yet to properly understand terms like linux-swap, ext3, root, and many others. Hope you will be patient with my slow and cautious learning process.

For internet I suppose I can use just Firefox which I think is there on the Ubuntu disc, or available on other free discs. So far I've used only Internet explorer on my old PC, and I will avoid it altogether for the laptop. I want to be sure that when I connect up there is no likelihood of Dell or Microsoft automatically accessing my system and making any alterations or updates. I had been using AVG free antivirus, after finding Norton and McAfee very cumbersome and troublesome. I guess an appropriate AVG product can also be used on the laptop with linux and Firefox.

If I can spend enough time and feel confident enough within the next few days I'll do the partitioning and Ubuntu linux install. Otherwise I must wait till I get back from an outstation trip. With regards and many many thanks to all who have been so friendly with good advice.
=TeeSquare=

7 Reply by class413

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Re: Reorganising Partitions on a Dell laptop with WinXP

I think hashky pointed out the same, not to change the dell specific partitions. All new linux partitions can be created within the (expanded)  /dev/sda3 partition.

The Acronis backup programme makes a sector by sector copy of the disk, named an "image" of the disk. There are other similar solutions too. You could even use the Linux command dd to make a copy of the entire hard drive to another external hard drive. This command is available from the Ubuntu installation cd too.

*** It is highly recommended to backup any important files before doing resize/move operations. ***

8 Reply by TeeSquare

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Re: Reorganising Partitions on a Dell laptop with WinXP

Thanks, class413. I am surely on the right track, but proceeding cautiously while trying to read and understand the available information. There was very useful and relevant stuff available at <http://www.goodells.net/dellrestore/mediadirect.htm> and other links at that site, which was recommended in a post at the Elder Geek forum. I cannot understand much of it, but I'm sure the information about how the hidden files are organised in Dell computers will be of use to others who have problems of the kind I am dealing with. =TeeSquare=

9 Reply by deschman

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Re: Reorganising Partitions on a Dell laptop with WinXP

TeeSquare,

I don't know if you found the solution for your partitioning problem since it's almost a month since your last post
Just in addition to the made suggestions to back up your partitions:

There is a Linux based Live CD to backup your harddrive as an sector by sector image.
It's called CloneZilla which actually saved me from reinstalling Vista and all additional software and user specific settings which do not come with the recovery CD or the recovery partition.

Good Luck.

The truth is out there ... I want to believe

10 Reply by TeeSquare

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Re: Reorganising Partitions on a Dell laptop with WinXP

Thanks, deschman for your concern. I saw your message only much later, as I was not expecting anything further in this thread! Though I have received a lot of valuable advice in this thread, I have not found the time yet to implement things systematically (but will do so in due course). I think much of the information will be more useful to others who read this thread.
I have not yet tried CloneZilla, and generally avoid trying to download any large files using my erratic dial-up connection. And since I don't use credit cards, payment for non-free software is not so simple for me.
I have explained some of my limitations in post 6 in response to hashky, but I'm somewhat more knowledgeable and confident today. I have not yet gone all the way to actually installing and using Ubuntu Linux, but I have the live disc which I have tried out a few times, and the space is available in an extended partition for installing it. I was able to create a bootable disc from an iso image of GParted, and successfully played around a little bit with creating/deleting partitions to get familiar with the process.
My learning process is unfortunately rather slow in these matters (I am a sixty-plus old-fashioned mechanical engineer, with a general phobia about computers!). I don't get sufficient time to spend at a stretch on my laptop, so each time I waste effort on recapitulating previous work. I am grateful to all those who have taken the trouble to give me detailed advice, though I'm not sufficiently computer-literate to implement much of it. I think all I really needed from this thread was moderator class413's concise advice in post 2.
I was a little rash and foolishly used a WinXP Recovery Console command which led to deletion of one of the hidden Dell partitions (the original E: which was a 3GB fat32 section located right at the end, presumably containing the Windows backup material). Dell has not supplied any OS disc for re-installation. Very like likely the partition has not been actually deleted, but the reference in the partition table must have been altered so it is effectively inaccessible. Perhaps it can be restored by someone who is very knowledgeable about partition recovery procedures. I certainly don't fit the bill, nor do I know anyone here who does!
As things stand I'll probably have to do without the original WinXP if it ever gets corrupted. Anyway my intention is to get familiar with Linux and use it exclusively in due course, with Windows as an alternative if really needed, as it is still the favourite in the big bad world outside. I have backed up the original partitions on USB pen drives (except for the 'lost' E:) using the Gparted copy command, and hope they can be used if necessary, though I'm not sure how.
I don't wish to burden anyone in this thread or forum any more. If I run into specific difficulties I should resolve it in the appropriate Linux or Ubuntu forum for newbies. It takes me a good deal of time and effort to formulate my question, as you may have noticed from my initial post in this thread. I'm just naturally cautious, but maybe I'm too verbose at times. I'm still trying to read and understand terms like boot manager and a whole lot of other Linux jargon. I've been taking it rather easy so far, but one of these days my rickety old pc with Win98 will not recover from its tantrums, and then I'll be forced to use the new laptop (already over 8 months old!) regularly.
Thanks again, =TeeSquare=